Zahner’s Nathan Barnes and Ryan Sutton share insights on how they choose their technology and business partners in this Tech Insider interview.
What kind of role do you envision for someone with a background in computational fabrication of mass customized architecture? For Nathan Barnes, serving as computational lead for research & development at Zahner is an ideal fit.
Nathan specializes in innovation. Recently, that means applying surveying technology, including reality capture, to achieve effective execution on incredibly complex projects using highly crafted architectural metalwork. Accuracy is paramount. Clear and effective communication among all stakeholders, including field installers, is vital.
The model and the real world aren’t always the same, so we need to know how to update the model. We heavily rely on survey technology to give us that information. We use the Leica MS60 MultiStation because it works well with our platform to provide real-time information. We’ve also found it advantageous to partner with firms like Langan to get scans of the context.
We recently sat down with Nathan Barnes and Ryan Sutton, Zahner’s chief marketing officer, to learn more about how they use surveying technology and how they achieve real-time project collaboration through their SurveyLink platform.
Watch the full interview, or browse the discussion highlights below.
Zahner creates stunning architectural metalwork for buildings and structures. Tell us about the company and what you do.
Ryan: Zahner is 125 years old and in its fourth generation as a family-owned business under Chairman and CEO Bill Zahner. The company proudly acts as a fabricator and metallurgist. Our engineering resources are leaned on to execute our customers’ vision. We work with designers, architects and owners to deliver the extraordinary. So our expertise is in metal, but really we pride ourselves on solving the complex challenges of design and architecture. And that is seen proudly with our buildings all over the world.
Explore some of Zahner's projects
How does Zahner get involved in these projects?
Ryan: Typically our initial conversation is with an architect and designer. An owner might approach them and say, ‘This is the project; this is what I would like to accomplish.’ And our reputation is about execution on complex exteriors. We work together with the various stakeholders, all driving toward that execution.
The typical interaction is early and it’s consultative. We’re all listening. We’re all working together, driving toward project goals.
Zahner uses surveying technology from Leica Geosystems. Where does surveying technology fit into the picture?
Nathan: We’re trying to bridge the gap between what we’re creating and what designers have created—getting the best picture of that in a digital sense, and then trying to reproduce that in the physical parts that we make. Survey technology allows us to get a picture of our world in a way that would be very cumbersome to do with any other method. We’re trying to make parts often before the building is in place. We use survey technology to capture the state of the building as it progresses and validate elements we’re going to be attaching to for positioning.
SurveyLink, the software we’ve developed, allows us to tie the survey data we get in real time through surveying prisms attached to our parts, and we can compare that against our model. The platform is a web browser that allows any stakeholder to view the model in real time. But it’s meant to be used by the installers with a tablet onsite to where they can see in real time what their positions of their parts are in relationship to where they should be in the model.
We also use laser scanning upstream so we know where parts are in reality. The model and the real world aren’t always the same, so we need to know how to update it. We heavily rely on survey technology to give us that information.
We use the Leica MS60 MultiStation because it works well with our platform to provide real-time information. But then we’ve also found it advantageous to partner with someone external to get scans of the context, and so we partner with groups like Langan. Whenever we engage with them early we know that we can align on exactly what we want to get in terms of noise and resolution of the scan so we can then pull that into our process and understand where part positions are, and then we can deploy our equipment and SurveyLink to drive our additional parts that are fabricated to a very high tolerance through CNC machinery to their right position onsite so that everything fits and is in position.
What was the primary challenge that led you to develop SurveyLink?
Nathan: We’ve been exposed to survey in various capacities and have been adopting it for a number of years. But in Google’s Bay View project, we started to notice the long feedback loops. There would be an external surveyor subcontracted under the general contractor. They would survey, and then then those scans or measurements would pass through a series of external groups before they got to us. We would finally evaluate them against our model and then pass that information back in terms of adjustments that needed to be made through the loop.
All this would take weeks. And if there was a problem onsite, then you’ve got very expensive delays. And so we really looked at where is there a significant amount of concentration of effort and cost. The field is one of those areas, and it’s also where there’s a very low deployment of computational tools that lets you offload some problems to things the computer does well.
As you build complexity in terms of compound rotations and things that are up in the air and far away, it gets really hard to understand how to access those and get things to the right place. And so we deployed SurveyLink to be able to look at the parts as they’re being installed in position, and there’s really no other way to lay out without significant more effort in terms of material and time to look at those. And then in real time, you can see if parts can achieve their position and look at other issues that are going down the line and flag those and then make on the fly adjustments.
Ryan: Zahner deploys tools to solve problems that we’re seeing or that we’ve run into as we get to our goal of execution. We’re delivering design intent, and whether it’s survey technology, digital tools, or something else, it’s about eliminating communication barriers. These tools become part of Zahner’s M.O. and our competitive advantage. That drives to our promise of effective execution on what could be the most complex projects.
Nathan: Leica being more receptive, facilitating that, getting us access [for data transfer], was a big distinguisher and why we went with Leica equipment.
Ryan: In many cases Zahner is going deeper with partners, but it’s with those that are more receptive to digging in and exploring what hasn’t been done or what could be done or as opposed to this is our format, this is our box. It’s less about functionality and more about receptivity and a willingness to expose our system so that we can communicate more clearly.
This is why we’re having these deeper conversations with Leica, with Langan, with others, because of that receptivity.
As we started thinking about how to close the feedback loop, we came across the MS60 as one of the tools that was out there. Purchasing that and utilizing it for scans gave us a vocabulary in a sense of what were the sort of levers and things we could then go back to external surveyors and be able to ask more directed questions and more specific things of what we needed in order to get our process to work correctly.
So you’re partnering with firms like Langan in the engineering and surveying space to create digital realities with point clouds, capturing what’s there and then using your SurveyLink platform to allow everyone to see the project progress in real time.
Nathan: That’s it. A good example is the Cadet Chapel renovation in Colorado Springs that we’re involved in now. A large portion of SurveyLink was developed for that project. We came on to the contract to renovate it and take everything off down to the steel members and we were going to build the system back up with a weatherproofing system. The design required such tight tolerances that traditional layout methods really couldn’t achieve them. So that was really where this technology started to step in.
And then, realizing that we needed to get a really accurate picture of the steel that existed, we brought Langan on. We had worked with them on some previous projects and knew we would be able to collaborate with them. They scanned the steel and provided for the contextual information that then we modeled our parts against and used SurveyLink to install against.
Are you using reality capture and SurveyLink for every project or only specific projects?
Nathan: It’s a tool that allows us to maintain excellence on any project that we need it on. As we see projects that are continually more complex, schedules tighter, it’s a method to be able to execute, reduce risk in the process, adhere to the plan, flag issues earlier.
Ryan: Regardless of the complexity of the project, we’re always thinking about how to make sure from the outset that we’re communicating with all stakeholders. When projects don’t go well, that’s one of the major problems, that we’re not communicating well at the beginning. SurveyLink helps us do that on what’s most complex.
How do you define the value of laser scanning in your work?
Nathan: It’s critical, both for visualization and to extract and understand the current state of the building as a snapshot, which you really can’t get any other way.
At Zahner, we’re always asking how can we execute our projects more efficiently? Are there new tools and capabilities? A large part of my role is to evaluate developments for where they might come into play in the future. Enabling more communication earlier is crucial, and technology is a big part of that.
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